01-18-05 10:10

F: I would say this is liberation or Nirvana [instead of contentment], what can I say, I am a stickler for terms

I like precise terminology but it has to take a back seat to conveying meaning.

I wasn't raised buddhist and so its terminology is a late addition for me. Thus terms like "nirvana" will always be defined internally in terms of other words I learned first, such as contentment.

Since it is very difficult to convey the precise meanings inherant to buddhism, I was taught that one must use their own words and speak directly or all hope is lost.

Of course differing traditions have differing ideas about such things and I'm not trying to imply mine is better, its just how I communicate and why we seem to end up drifting in what we are talking about. :)

F:My understanding is that effort is a mind that delights in virtue (thinks: "what joy, just to practise") as opposed to the rather more common idea of nose against grindstone type effort.

By effort I just was reffering to the amount of energy lost in trying to sustain something.

It is true that once virtue is realized, one can receive energy from virtuous activity. But I see that as a "next step."

Achieving the zero point of true rest in contentment and equinimity is the basis upon which virtuous action is built.

Its like swimming. If you are still sinking you can't help any one else. If you can swim, you will still drown because you can't swim forever. But if you can float on your back without effort, you are free to act for the benefit of others without over tiring yourself and drowning in the process.


01-18-05 10:01

F: I was always taught that an intellectual understanding of the Dharma was a prerequisite to gaining actual experience.

It really depends on the school/sect. Some rely heavily on establishing a firm intellectual basis, some attempt to block intellectualism all together and about every shade in between.

My conclusion is that the intellect is a tool and it can be useful, inconsequential or a distraction depending on the user and where they are. Eventually though everybody seems to agree the intellect falls short and one must step beyond mere concepts into actualities.

F: But if you don't know what it means to be content, you may simply be content with your Samsaric situation and that isn't going to help you.

I must disagreee. If you are content, you are content and such is an expression of equanimity. It might help to think in terms of contentment vs. self gratification.

The inherant dukkha of samsaric situations precludes actual contentment even when one has fully gratifide the senses, hence the first noble truth.

We like to pretent that buddhism is necessary or even important, but the truth is buddhism is a crutch for people who can't figure it out on on their own.

Some one who is actually content has achieved an actual realization of equinimity or they couldn't be content.

They may or may not be done, but it would be ill to gainsay them simply because they walked a different way to get to where they are.


01-18-05 8:28

D:Why must we practice?

J: Practice is understanding.


01-17-05 11:12

J: The inherant dukkha of samsaric situations precludes actual contentment, hence the first [no]ble truth.

F: before one has a realisation of contentment, its not possible to be actually content[?]

No, not exactly. I think to explain this I'm going to borrow some examples from actual hedonism.

Let's assume there are sufferings that you can achieve and contentments you can achieve. So you worry about death and it pains you or you think about how well off you are and you are content for a moment.

These are both transitory however and not true contentment. They both require you to make an effort before they can be realized.

That effort cannot be sustained forever so the contentment achieved is always imperminant and unsatisfactory. (FNT)

But suppose you hurt and then remove the source of the pain. As you return to your natural state there is relief and contentment which does not require any effort on your part.

The realization of the absence of suffering is true contentment.

Just as the masters are always saying, it has been there all along. It is your natural state. It was there before you stated putting on the faces you show the world.

But it gets lost in rushing from artificial state to artifical state, from pushing into lows and highs.

By stopping via meditation or other means, it is possible peel away the layers and let natural state of effortless contentment come to the forefront and be noticed.

The more fully you notice it, the deeper it goes until you realize that you don't even have to notice it any more because you've realized you are it and have always been it.

This can be hard to communicate so please ask questions if I don't seem to be making sense.


01-10-05 1:10
Re: Christians I like

K: Why don't you like christians? Did "christianity" DO something to you?

At its heart, as it is practiced, christianity and the Abrahamic faiths are the big lie.

Their core values are ignorance, greed and hatred.

They spread corruption and fear.

What's not to like?

01-11-05 3:21


The truth is that which can be verified.

- Jay