Schmendrick: Why so hard on christians? Sapphire believes she is no threat to democracy.

The only important thing I see here is that democracy be preserved, and if we take on allies who are christian it will be easier for us, so be respectful.

Because she worships what is false as being true, she has a fundimental flaw in her capacity for reason which will allow her to believe as true any number of irrational beliefs.

Democracy is based on an appeal to reason and rational self interest.

She is an enemy of democracy far more real than the soviet union ever was because she would give up her freedom willingly for her "god" just like she has sacrificed her ability to think.

All that is needed is the proper manipulator to tell her what "god" wants her to do.

07-12-05 7:20  •  Passive-Aggressive

Shaku: I must confess to being a bit pro-passive-aggressive. When I'm trying all this pop-psychology openness and vulnerability and directness and so on, well, it only then just ends up that I've put all my cards on the table, then the other person uses the information to their advantage, and then they further conclude that I'm a pushover and a doormat.

Like about romance, tell a romantic partner that you're hurt that they don't call, and sure enough you'll get jerked around forever. However, in each of those cases I have a rule, not to talk about not calling, but to have me be the most passive of non-callers, and I say do it till the other person breaks.

That's the one thing about passive-aggressive behavior, don't do it unless you really think you can outlast and wear down the other person. I never complain at work, no matter how shitty they're being, until I determine the abuse is worthy of my leaving.

Fuck all that passive shit.

You are still caught up in the pop psych belief that "negativity" and "aggression" are "bad."

I don't have the time to waste on assholes and I don't care about their attention.

Make real moves romantically and if the other person won't step up then get on with your life and leave them behind.

If you are worrying about what they are getting or what they are winning or anything at all about *them,* you've already missed the point that players aren't worth the time to consider their shinanigons.

The point of direct, honest and vulnerable talk has nothing to do with players or winners. The point is to be the kind of person that other direct, honest and vulnerable people can be friends and lovers with.

07-11-05 7:20  •  Grace and Works in the Bible

Swarm and Sapphire had been discussing Eph 2. Sapphire said Eph 2:1-9 proved that grace alone was required for entry to Heaven. Swarm said Sapphire was ignoring Eph 2:10 which clearly stated that works are required also.

7:11
Grace may get you to the door, but the first step into heaven is doing good works.

As usual for a fundy you seem to be ignoring what I say and reapeating the same thing over and over.

Sapphire: Actually what I was trying to show you is that you cannot just pick out a verse and say it mean that... you have to understand the context of the verse by reading the ones that come before it....

I'm still waiting for why you lied by omission in leaving off Eph 2:10 when you quoted the entire rest of the verse.

I was not lying by omission... I was trying to get you to see the true context....

The question here is not whether the bible says you are saved by grace.

Sapphire: As we have been trying to get you to understand is that being saved by grace encourages you to do good works not to score points but because you want to....

The question is whether grace ALONE is sufficient and it clearly is NOT.

I already answered this you just refuse to see it in a different light....

7:21
S: Actually what I was trying to show you is that you cannot just pick out a verse and say it mean that... you have to understand the context of the verse by reading the ones that come before it....

I did not pick the verse, you did.

I did not leave anything out, I merely completed the verse by adding the finishing line which you had left off which is key to understanding the reason for grace, which you are studiously ignoring because you don't want to hear it.

S: I was not lying by omission.

Quoting only 9 verses of a 10 verse paragraph and leaving out the conclusion which says exactly what I said it would is lying by omission.

S: Would you like more examples?

You still seem unclear on the basic concept here. I've already granted that the bible says saved by grace. My point is that it says saved by grace FOR doing good works. It does not say saved by grace and don't worry about anything else. Saved by grace is the begining, not the end. If you stop at just being saved by grace the seed of grace fell on infertile ground and did not blossom into good works, which is the entire intent of grace.

S: encourages you to do good works not to score points but because you want to....

That is not what the bible says. Grace manifests as actual good works, even miraculous good works. Where there is no good work there is no grace. The two are inextricably intertwined such that you can know a christian is an actual christian just by looking at their works of love.

Its one of the few completely unambiguous points in the whole NT which is reapeated over and over.

Works is how you know the grace is real and not just some transient high.

L: Wait, which heaven are we talking about here?

Doing what is good.

C: Doing good works will not get you into heaven. We are saved by grace and given the gift of the holy spirit once we are born again in the holy spirit by accepting Jesus.

I didn't say it would.

I said doing good works IS heaven just as doing bad works IS hell.

07-07-05 7:07  •   Zen Buddhist Scoundrels Tribe

Harriet: scoundrel n : a wicked or evil person; someone who does evil deliberately

I'm so confused! How does "deliberate evil" dovetail with "zen buddhist" again?

Scoundrel is synonymous with rascal, villian and rogue.

aka: a disreputable person.

Its not necessarily as evil as it is mischievious.

As Han Solo said, "You could use a few more scoundrels in your life."

H: To me, buddhism entails accepting the positive aspect of being alive.

As I understand it, buddhism is accepting life as it is, "positive" and "negative", and then choosing to do what you find correct with what you find.

Which is why PC, smarmy, goody-goody, shy away from all negativity types piss us off so.

Of course Ron has no art to his crudity so it's equally hard to take.

A true scoundrel needs panache.

Sandy: Now THIS should be in the tribe's "mission statement" . THAT makes complete sense. Buddha got his wisdom and grace through trial not tea parties.

Harriet: Leave it to Swarm to put it in words I could understand : )


07-07-05 7:07  •  Talk about “God”

Xylem: I was raised atheist by my two atheist parents. I have come to call the energy of the entire universe and the great mystery 'God', in my poetry and songwriting, in my practices of yoga, etc. How can I explain my use of the term in an all-encompassing manner...that spark of 'everything' that is within everybody...how can I make my beliefs accessible to my parents so they can stop feeling like they've lost me to the other side?

Speak so that the people you want to hear will understand.

The actuality is what is important. If certain labels have too much baggage don't use them at all.

If you really understand what you are describing you can talk about it in many ways without having to resort to the common every day labels. That's part of what being a poet is about: discovering new and fresh language to talk about what is real without the baggage that creeps into the old ways of talking.

Show them there is no other side.

07-01-05 11:07  •  Choose a teacher

Arma: Would you care to let me know how I can tell if a teacher is good?

There are no sure-fire ways, but there are definite telltale signs.

Does he ask what he is not willing to do?

Power, money, sex and drugs are always the best places to look for problems of this kind.

Can she see clearly and speak clearly?
Does she teach what is true and dismiss what is false?

Is there compassion and heart in what is taught?

Are students peers or underlings?
Is no one else ever better or finished?

These work for me. I'm sure you can think of more if you care to.

06-30-05 6:30  •  Theistic Family

so... I'm going back to my home state for the first time in a decade.

my family ranges from one other lone atheist to fairly moderate catholics to wing-nut born-agains.

although I think I have some good strategies ready in case things take a conversational turn for the worse, I'd appreciate some further input.

your thoughts?

If you don't want to play try just saying:

"No thank you."

To anything unacceptable.

If the first one fails, repeat it a second time a notch louder and turn away or leave for a more amiable person.

If they keep on you, you might try:

Look! I said I don't want to have sex with you!

;)